Conversation following above TED talk

Here's the transcript. Ive highlighted the most relevant (to major) bits.

me: hey man hows it goin

matt gleeson: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5343

just watching this

Sent at 10:37 AM on Monday

me: hmmm

intersting

its a damn interesting way of looking at morality

matt gleeson: I agreed witheverything that guy said basically

Sent at 11:02 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: Its quite hard to let science enter the moral sphere, the idea of 'thought police' and restrictions and answerability scare people

me: ah yes

but if there is really 'right' answers, then does it matter?

our current legal system is based on some sort of moral code

Sent at 11:05 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: our minds arent though

I don't believe in universal answers

but I do believe in thier approximations, in universal answers attatched to an era and a culture and a place

Sent at 11:08 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: It is clear that the idea of hunting an animal for game has changed. Right now I view it as abhorent, but back in the day when game animals were still abundant I think I would have been quite keen to try it myself.

me: what else would you do with your spare time?

matt gleeson: haha, exactly. answers to moral questions need to include their inevitable redundancy in thier formula.

Sent at 11:11 AM on Monday

me: but if we don't physically change, ie: over a millenia we're still the same humans, then wouldnt there be 'correct' ways to act?

ways that are optimum?

he had a good example with food too

matt gleeson: The problem with science is that including this dynamism, this unpredictable vairable is like an itch, a scratch on the roof of the mouth. and it inspires doubt and frustration

Sent at 11:12 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: nah man i think you forget what my game illustration was trying to say: that the environment is ever changing, so so should our moral code in order to minimize misery and encourage optimum physical and mental evoloution and knowlege etc

Sent at 11:15 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: structures without dynamic flexibility, will crumble as tree roots and surrounding structures grow and mutate. Without the ability to reshape themselves to their environment abstract structures like a universal moral code will never have any potentcy

Sent at 11:19 AM on Monday

me: How can you do that then? I cant even comprehend solutions to that

matt gleeson: so like i guess im sying: there can be universal truths, but they to be constantly re written, they can not be rote learned and serve you for your whole life

well otherwise science is doing exactly what religion does, refferences all of these rules made 2000 years ago in a world that doesnt really resemble ours now

and since our environment and the complexity of our culture has changed, so to should the bible you know?

I have absolutely no idea how the hell you would be able to sell tothe public this dynamic model of ever changing moral truths

me: lol

matt gleeson: you could'nt I dont think

me: while the bible is archaic, my opionion is that there are definately some core values that are still very relevant

matt gleeson: ofcorse

me: even though they are dressed in olde english and all that

matt gleeson: because there are core part of ourselves and our society that have not and will not change

me: though the problem is that there are still people that follow literal or odd intrepertations

that core bit, then, is the key

Sent at 11:23 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: yeah but does the core hold enough weight or clout or authority over the more abstract and ever changing part of ourselves and our society?

if not then do we have to try and creep into the more abstract and symbolic parts of ourselves?

me: if we have the clarity to apply it to ourselves, in whatever situation or time, then I think core values have worth

Sent at 11:26 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: I think we do, our decion making, our rational, our internal wars have to be re-conditioned so that we don't just always take the easy option, that we don't always do simply what is best for ourselves, that we don't pursue the expansion of our own freedoms through the sacrifice of others freedoms

Sent at 11:27 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: yeah man, so it all comes down to the encouragement of critical thinking

Sent at 11:28 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: otherwise we are weak, we are at the mercy outside forces and our mind ceases to be our own you know, simply becasue we choose not to make it our own but to surrender to persuasion and ease and anger and desire and all vices

me: what about what that speaker was talking about then: that, as in science, there are some that are 'smarter/better' than others. Do we all have the facilities to be as critical thinkers as others can?

matt gleeson: no we don't, ha

me: i think thats where a dogma like the bible has power

matt gleeson: we are trapped by the body of stupid

me: haha

someone else can find the answers and tell me about it in a way i can understand

Sent at 11:31 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: we are and its gutting, i used to be okay with that because it made me feel good to be less ignorant than people surrounding me, and I felt like keeping my little realisations to myself, until I realised that we are on a trajectory to economic an denvironmental collapse

and then I started becoming really fucking opinionated and outspoken

me: lol

matt gleeson: haha, this research project has been greats, its formalised so many thing for me

me: nice

its opened a lot of things for me that I had never considered before

matt gleeson: yeah man, but above all its made me feel guilty and sad, even more pessimistic than I was, haha

but it doesn't mean that im gonigto let that creep into the body of work I produce in my career

me: i prefer to try for optimisim, and see the good in people

the situation may be fucked, but were all still here

matt gleeson: yeah but its like I want my work to be my penance for giving up

Sent at 11:36 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: I know deep down that I am optimistic, but i feel embarrassed about feeling optimistic, like this discourse with life is going to go like a movie, where I overcome adversity and win in the end you know, I feel liek a bit of a sucker for feeling optimistic

me: just to wrap up, promoting critical thinking is that aim, but there's the flaw that people are lazy, stupid, unintersted, (just being people)

hah lol

so where does that leave us

matt gleeson: haha yeah so basically we have to wage a war against the shortcomings of the human mind

me: im finding it intensitely difficult to be objective to everything around me.

Sent at 11:39 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: ha, im just simply not, I know I'm part of the problem, a subject of my environment, but that doesn't mean I can't hold the opinions that i do, and this is simply becasue I'm open to the idea of effort and change

Sent at 11:41 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: so like im taking ghandis quote and changing it to "we must gradually move towards embodying the change we want to see in society"

me: mmmm that makes it a bit easier

maybe, inwardly be the change you want to see, and outwardly move towards it

i just cant help but think its like taking the easy way out and not being the full change you want to see

but at the same time, I cant be fucked

the human condition is defined by lazyness

laziness

anyways, i think i might go on and do some work. I was thinking, mind if I post this log into the blog? at the very least it would show that we are in touch

Sent at 11:46 AM on Monday

matt gleeson: nah i mean if we do want to become martyrs for our cause then it means that we ostracize ourselves and render ourselves inhuman

me: haha, sounds like a weak escuse!

excuse

okay well acutally thats an interesting point

work within our shortcomings to better understand them

matt gleeson: i mean I fully realize that succumbing to our vices is something that we need some times, and if we try to quash that out of society then we will start a war

me: i think i just like to try as hard as i can to overcome them, because they're so damn strong that no matter how much I try, Ill always sucumb some part

matt gleeson: we are allowed to be weak some times, but not post modern, not directionless

ha

me: lol

matt gleeson: yeah and i think that trying makes all the difference

me: alrighty im gonna take off. mind if I post this log into the blog?

matt gleeson: nah man this would be good

im posting the ted speech up right now

me: sweet

Sent at 11:51 AM on Monday